John Kerry
 

FACE THE NATION: CBS News, Sunday, January 4, 2004


But first John Kerry on FACE THE NATION.

Announcer: FACE THE NATION with CBS News chief Washington correspondent Bob
Schieffer. And now from CBS News in Washington, Bob Schieffer.

SCHIEFFER: And good morning again.
Senator John Kerry is in Des Moines today. He is at his campaign headquarters there.
Joining in the questioning is Amy Walter.

Senator, welcome.
Senator JOHN KERRY (Democrat, Massachusetts; Democratic Presidential Candidate): Good
morning.

SCHIEFFER: You unleashed a withering attack on Howard Dean last week, among other
things saying he has--he had a shoot from the hip style, a tendency to flip-flop. You said a
candidate who treats America's national security the way he does won't be elected president
and, frankly, doesn't deserve to be. From here, it appears that those--those strong words have
had no impact. Have they had an impact out there where you are?

Sen. KERRY: Oh, I--I disagree. I think there's a great deal of evaluation taking place, Bob.
People are now really focused after the new year. They want to know who is ready to be
president of the United States. Who has the experience, the vision to make our country safer
in the world. This is a very perilous time, and I think that it is important to have somebody
who can give confidence to the American people that we can lead the nation--we Democrats
have the ability to provide safety and security to our nation without having to retract every
statement we make, without having to run a foreign policy by press release clarification. And
I'm ready to do exactly that, to lead our country to a place of safety.

SCHIEFFER: Well, do you think it would be dangerous to have Howard Dean as president?

Sen. KERRY: Well, How--listen, Bob, it's up to a lot of other voters to make decisions about
this race. What I'm trying to do is point out that for us to beat George Bush, we need a
candidate who has the ability to go face to face with him on the issue of national security.
George Bush himself has said national security will be the central issue of this campaign.
And it's very clear that--that Howard Dean has been all over the place. I mean, if you don't
know that Saddam Hussein is guilty and you think he has to have a jury trial, if you make
statements suggesting that we can't protect ourselves without the permission of the United
Nations, that we have to prepare for the day when America is not the strongest military in
the world, that we're not safer with Saddam Hussein captured, I think those will raise serious
doubts in the minds of Americans about whether or not this is the Democratic Party of retreat
and confusion or whether it is the Democratic Party in the tradition of Roosevelt and Truman
that knows how to make America safe. I know how to make America safe and fight a war


Face the Nation (CBS News) - Sunday, January 4, 2004 2
on terror that does not overextend our troops, that does not put America at greater risk. And
we need a nominee about whom there are no questions on the subject of national security.

SCHIEFFER: Amy.
Ms. AMY WALTER (The Cook Political Report): Senator, you're joining us from Iowa.
There's been a lot of talk recently about your momentum in the state. But there's not as much
momentum for your candidacy in New Hampshire, which is your back yard. Is it possible
that you could do better in Iowa than in New Hampshire, and what does this say about you
and your candidacy that you're running stronger in Iowa than you may do in New
Hampshire, where you're better known, where you're from?

Sen. KERRY: Well, so is Howard Dean. Howard Dean's a neighbor of--of New Hampshire
and New Hampshire will make its decision over the course of these next weeks. I'm confident
that my campaign is moving in New Hampshire, too. I think a lot of people in New
Hampshire are not aware that Howard Dean wants to raise taxes on middle-class New
Hampshirites. I don't. Howard Dean wants to ra--get rid of the child tax credit. There are a
lot of families in New Hampshire that are going to be very negatively impacted. They can't
afford tuition today. They can't afford prescription drugs. They can't afford health care.
And Howard Dean's coming along and saying, `I'm going to raise your taxes.' I think that's a
mistake, a mistake for the country in terms of economic policy. I think it's a mistake in social
policy. And I also think that for the Democrats to say, `We're going to reinstate the marriage
penalty and tax everybody at a higher bracket, 15 percent rather than 10 percent,' is not the
way to balance the budget and fix our economy.

Bill Clinton proved that in the 1990s. We showed that we know how to balance the budget.
We know how to be fiscally responsible, but we don't have to take it out of the hides of the
middle class who are already hurting. I'm going to roll back George Bush's tax cut for the
wealthy Americans and I'm going to use that money to invest in education and health care,
but I'm not going to punish the middle class for the mistakes that George Bush has made.

Ms. WALTER: Senator, we talked a lot about Howard Dean, but for many weeks, certainly
beginning of this campaign, you were the front-runner. What happened? How did Howard
Dean become the front-runner? Is this more about Howard Dean? Is this something that
your campaign did or did not do?

Sen. KERRY: No, I think...

Ms. WALTER: Wha--wha--what went wrong?
Sen. KERRY: I--I--first of all, I think that whoever it was or wasn't the front-runner at the
beginning, I don't know that. Some people may have given the label to that effect, but
something called a war happened. A war in Iraq was very, very divisive and everybody in
the country knows that. And for a while, a wall came down and it took a while for people to
understand the full ex--you know, understanding of why people voted the way they did and
what it meant. There was a right way to do Iraq. There was a wrong way to do it. George
Bush chose the wrong way in every regard and he broke his promises to the American
people, and he misled the Congress and the United States.

I believe that I did what was right to protect the security of the country, but I think George
Bush abused that authority and I have legitimacy to be able to hold him accountable for that.
And it is clear, absolutely clear, that a man who took the United States to war previously,
who tried to assassinate a president of the United States, who we knew was developing
weapons of mass destruction because we destroyed them ourselves over seven and a half


Face the Nation (CBS News) - Sunday, January 4, 2004 3
years...

SCHIEFFER: Well...

Sen. KERRY: ...and who also remained a threat to us while he was out of captivity, we're
better off without him. And I understand that.

SCHIEFFER: Well, that does raise the question, and--and you have certainly criticized
Howard Dean for his various flip-flops, but what you have just said reminds me you told
Rolling Stone on December 9th, quote, "If I were president, we wouldn't be in Iraq today. We
would not be at war." And then about a week later, December 16th I think it was after
Saddam Hussein was captured, you said, "I am here to say holding Saddam accountable was
important. I'm here to say that doing nothing..."

Sen. KERRY: That's right.

SCHIEFFER: "...would have been the most dangerous path of all." So it sounds like, just from
reading those two quotes, before they got Saddam Hussein, you were telling people, `Gosh, I
wouldn't have been there. I would have our boys in--in Iraq...

Sen. KERRY: No, Bob, that's not...

SCHIEFFER: ...and then afterwards, you're saying...

Sen. KERRY: That's actually...

SCHIEFFER: ...`That'd the worst thing of all if we did that.' Do you want to clear that up?

Sen. KERRY: That's not what I said, Bob.

SCHIEFFER: OK.

Sen. KERRY: Absolutely.

SCHIEFFER: Well, I mean, I'm reading your direct quotes here.

Sen. KERRY: I look forward to...

SCHIEFFER: But you--you explain to me.

Sen. KERRY: What I said--what I was talking about--what I was talking about, Bob, was
how you go to war. I voted to give the president the authority and I was prepared to use
force and I'm still prepared any time to use force to protect America. And we needed that
threat of force in order to get the inspectors in. And I was prepared to use it. Absolutely
prepared to use it. But I believe there was an intelligent way to do it. And the intelligent way
to do it was to exhaust the patience of other countries, to use the inspections to help build the
support of the world and to go with the position of maximum strength.

Again and again in the months leading up to the war, I kept saying, `We should proceed

greatest the from few United He wisest divisions has the States. position turned position way left to our of to go of strength. Reserves fight to greatest war. a war And and strength.in Guard another he has ' into overextended In place fact, active if we the duty had president the military to. armed And did forces personnel. I believe not of proceed the that We that have from was very the not

Face the Nation (CBS News) - Sunday, January 4, 2004 4
That doesn't mean that I don't completely believe, as I do, that it was critical to hold Saddam
Hussein accountable. I said that of Bill Clinton in 1998. So it is completely consistent to hold
Saddam Hussein accountable, to be glad that he's gone, but to want to do it in a way that
minimizes the exposure to our troops, minimizes the cost to the American people and
maximizes the opportunity for success.

SCHIEFFER: Well...

Sen. KERRY: And that's exactly what I wanted to do.

SCHIEFFER: That raises another question that I'd--I'd like to hear you explain because
frankly I don't understand it. And that was you did vote to give the president the authority
to go to war. Yet you voted against the resolution, that $87 billion, that was needed to fund
the troops there.

Sen. KERRY: Yeah.

SCHIEFFER: Would you have voted for that money had your vote been needed?

Sen. KERRY: Yeah.

SCHIEFFER: Because it passed by a big margin. And they didn't need your vote to pass that.

Sen. KERRY: I would have--I--Bob, I made it absolutely clear that I support the troops. I
support our being successful in Iraq. It is vital to the war on terror. It's vital to our
international interests that we are successful. It's vital to Europe. It's vital to the Middle East.
But I also know from my own experience in Vietnam that when something is going wrong,
it's important to fix it. What I was voting for was a better way to be successful in Iraq, by
bringing the international community to the table and by doing what's necessary in order to
minimize the cost to the American taxpayer.

I also said--and Joe Biden and I brought this amendment. As long as we're asking our
national reserves to make a sacrifice, Bob, and families to make a sacrifice and troops to make
a sacrifice, it is appropriate for the wealthiest people in America to also make a sacrifice.
And we brought an amendment to ask for that $87 billion to be paid for--and I would have
voted for it--if we simply took a small piece of the tax cut for wealthy Americans and made
that the money that paid for it so we didn't go into deficit in our country. All we had to do
was ask the richest people in America instead of getting $690 billion of tax cuts over the next
10 years, couldn't they just make a little sacrifice along with the rest of America and only get
$600 billion? Because George Bush opposed that, I voted no.

SCHIEFFER: All right. Let me just ask you--just--let me just go back to the original question.
And if you don't want to answer it, you don't have to. But had your vote been needed...

Sen. KERRY: I'm happy to.

SCHIEFFER: ...had they needed your vote to pass the money to pay for those troops, and to
fund those troops, would you have voted for it had your vote been needed?

Sen. KERRY: I w--here's what would have happened. If the vote had been that close, we
would have had the normal process of negotiations that take place in the United States
Senate. They would have come up in a way that addressed people's objections and we
would have passed it. I would never ever ever abandon troops or make it more difficult for


Face the Nation (CBS News) - Sunday, January 4, 2004 5
the troops in the field. I've been one of those troops. I will never do that. But let me tell you
something. This administration isn't even providing the body armor and equipment to some
of the reserves that they need. We have parents in America who are buying that equipment
by themselves and sending it over to the troops. And they're cutting the VA budget and
they're--they're making it difficult for the veterans who come home to have the promises of
health care kept up to them. I understand what the definition of patriotism is in America.
And it begins by keeping faith with the people who serve and this administration is not doing
that.

SCHIEFFER: Right.

Ms. WALTER: Senator, I wanted to go back a little bit to these attacks on Dean. Is there any
concern that if he is the nominee, you've actually...

Sen. KERRY: W--w--why? What...

Ms. WALTER: I'm sorry. That if indeed he is the nominee that you've really opened up a
great line of attack for Republicans and the piling-on effect here could really impact him as
the nominee negatively.

Sen. KERRY: Please, this race against George Bush is going to be a tough race. If you don't
think Karl Rove and George Bush aren't sitting there waiting for these statements to be held
accountable when they run, if he's the nominee, you're kidding yourselves. I mean, the fact is
that we didn't open any of this up. Howard Dean made these statements. Howard Dean is
the one who said he doesn't think we're safer with the capture of Saddam Hussein. Howard
Dean is the one who said he didn't know whether or not he could have a jury trial--or he
might have a jury trial before he calls him guilty even though Saddam Hussein himself
announced he's guilty. Howard Dean is the one who said we need the permission of the UN
to do these things. This is a campaign about the presidency of the United States of America.

Ms. WALTER: D--do you...

Sen. KERRY: And we Democrats need to choose the strongest nominee possible to go up
against him. If he can't answer those questions adequately now he's not going to be able to
answer them when George Bush and Karl Rove go at him.

Ms. WALTER: Well...

SCHIEFFER: Do you think he has the temperament to be president?

Sen. KERRY: That's not for me to decide. That's for the American people to decide. I'm
trying to run a campaign on the issues and on the differences between us, not a personal one.
It makes a difference to people in America whether they're going to pay additional taxes. I
don't want the middle class to pay additional taxes. Howard Dean and Dick ki--Gephardt
are both willing. They want to raise taxes on the middle class. That's what campaigns are
about. You want to tax me? Don't you want to tax me? How will you protect me? How
will you not protect me? These are the issues on which you decide the presidency.

And I've had a lifetime record of standing up and fighting against special interests. I think it's
important that I've tried to close tax loopholes in places like Bermuda and tried to make the
tax system fair so the average American isn't paying taxes while CEOs and companies are
walking away with the store. Howard Dean opened up Vermont and tried to make it a
snowy Bermuda, as a tax haven for insurance companies. I think it's important for people to
know that the things you do in the course of your career define the things you may do later

Face the Nation (CBS News) - Sunday, January 4, 2004 6
on as a leader. That's what leadership is about. That's what an election is about. That's why
we have campaigns. That's why we have debates. And nobody should shy away from a--
from--from articulating the legitimate differences between us on issues that make a difference
to the American people.

Ms. WALTER: W--Senator...

SCHIEFFER: All right. I--I take your point.

Sen. KERRY: How else are the American people supposed to decide?

SCHIEFFER: I take your point.

Ms. WALTER: Right. Right, right. So, Senator, what is your road map after Iowa and New
Hampshire? Where do you go from here?

Sen. KERRY: Well...

Ms. WALTER: How do you win this nomination?

Sen. KERRY: I'm going to do well in Iowa. I'm going to do well in Iowa. Everybody has been
sort of writing campaigns off and just talking about the polls, and we've had months and
months of campaign by polls. Now we need to have campaigns by people, campaigns by
people who are independent-minded and who vote. I will tell you I have been stunned,
impressed, by the people of Iowa. They listen. They take this process seriously. They're
looking for leadership. They understand the issues. They don't care what the polls say.
They're going to go to those caucuses on January 19th and they're going to pick the person
that they believe can lead America to a safer, stronger place, put them back to work, give
them health care, stand up to George Bush and his bullies, and that's precisely what's
happening here in Iowa.

SCHIEFFER: Well, what would be good...

Sen. KERRY: And that's why I'm excited.

SCHIEFFER: What would...

Sen. KERRY: My campaign is moving out here.

SCHIEFFER: What would be good for you in Iowa, to finish second, finish ahead of
Gephardt? What would you call success?

Sen. KERRY: Well, I'm--I'm not going to play that--I'm not--I'm not going to play that game.
David Yepsen, who's the sort of premier observer of Iowa politics, has always written that
there are three tickets out of Iowa. I'll take my ticket of I--out of Iowa, and then I'll go on
from there. I'm going to do the best I can. I'm going to meet every voter I can. We did a 24hour
tour of the state the other day. Notwithstanding everybody's conventional wisdom and
preconceived notions, I trust the people of Iowa. And I'm out there meeting people every
single day, and they're responding because they know I have a plan to lower the cost of
health care for them. They know that I have a plan to lift our schools up, to help rural
America, to stop agribusiness from crushing small family farms. They want somebody who's
going to stand up and fight for them. And long before Howard Dean got into politics or
other candidates in this race stood up, I've been fighting consistently over 35 years to make
our government work for people. And that's exactly what I'm going to do as president.


Face the Nation (CBS News) - Sunday, January 4, 2004 7

SCHIEFFER: All right. I think that's a good place to leave it. Senator, good luck to you.
Sen. KERRY: Thank you.

SCHIEFFER: We hope to see you again along the campaign trail.

Sen. KERRY: You will.

SCHIEFFER: And stay o--or watch the snow out there, because I hear it's coming down.
We'll be back in just a moment.

Sen. KERRY: I sure will.